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Ravencoin Open Developer Meeting - 1/4/2019

[14:04] Hi everyone! [14:04] :dabbitwave: [14:04] Hey Everybody! [14:04] Hello 😃 [14:04] Sorry we're getting started a bit late. [14:04] Topics: SLC Meetup (March 15th) [14:04] 👋 [14:04] Roadmap breakdown - posted to github [14:05] IPFS (integration) [14:05] greetings 👋 [14:05] So, SLC Meetup on the 15th! [14:05] Great! [14:05] Hi! [14:06] Hi all — a special thanks to the developers and congratulations on an amazing first year!!! # [14:06] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> Hello Everyone! [14:07] We have a tentative agenda with @Tron , @corby speaking. [14:08] We would like to have nice walkthrough of the Raven DevKit for the meetup. [14:08] We are planning on hosting a meetup in SLC at the Overstock building on March 15th from 6:00pm-9:00pm. It is free admission, but there is a page on meetup.com where people can rsvp so that we have a somewhat accurate headcount for food. [14:08] sup guys [14:08] hey russ [14:09] We are planning on having a few speakers and have allotted a bit of time at the end for people to meet and greet each other. [14:09] can you guys link us to the page somewhere when thats available? 😄 [14:10] free food?! [14:10] todays topic? [14:10] yeah can we indicate pepperoni pizza [14:10] Sounds good to me @Jeroz Nothing ordered yet though. 😃 [14:10] only pepperoni pizza is served at true blockchain meetings right [14:10] :blobhide: [14:10] Absolutely. The itinerary just needs to be finalized and then I'll make a broad post about the rest of the details. [14:11] https://www.meetup.com/Salt-Lake-City-salt-lake-city-Meetup/ [14:11] 😭 so far away [14:11] West Coast! [14:11] @MTarget But there's pizza, so worth the travel time. [14:11] lol [14:12] I'll be watching the stream if its available since i'm from montreal/canada 😛 [14:12] Ah yes, I love $300 pizza 😉 [14:12] as long as I get to see your smiling faces @Tron @RavencoinDev then it's worth the time [14:12] We'll be there. [14:12] We'll be messaging additional details as they get finalized. [14:12] Greeting and salutations! [14:12] sup [14:13] Hey, $300 is considerably cheaper than 2 $3,700,000 pizzas. [14:14] Ok, switching topics... [14:14] yeah its a way to fly, [14:14] question is whether those piza's will be paid for in RVN coin or not :ThinkBlack: [14:14] Roadmap [14:14] It hasn't changed, just added some detail. [14:14] https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/tree/masteroadmap [14:15] nice [14:15] This now links to a breakdown for messaging, voting, anti-spam, and rewards (dividends) [14:15] will there be any additional RPC functionality coming in the future, thinking in terms of some functions that are only available in ravencore-lib [14:15] apologies if now is not time to ask questions, i can wait for later [14:15] "Phase 7 - Compatibility Mode" - that's new 😮 [14:15] The protocol for messaging is pretty well established, but the rest isn't in stone (code) yet. [14:16] can you give us details on compatibility mode? [14:16] In broad brush strokes. [14:17] The idea is to allow ravend to act as a daemon that looks like a single coin. [14:17] so ravend that only works with the bitcoin asset? [14:18] interesting [14:19] So you start it with an option to only work with a single asset/token account or something? [14:19] hmm compelling what is the reason for this? some kind of scale or performance? [14:19] ^ [14:19] Example: Configure ravend to listen for transfer RPC call for senttoaddress or sendfrom, but for a specific asset. This would allow easy integration into existing system for assets. [14:20] Only the daemon or the whole wallet UI? [14:20] yeah thats great, rpc functions dont allow us to do this yet, if i recall [14:20] or at least we depend more on ravencore lib [14:20] so like asset zmq [14:20] that's smart [14:20] @Tron it also sounds like it makes our life easier working with RPC, instead of core all the time for some functionality [14:21] if i understand correctly anyways [14:21] So you could run numerous instances of ravend each on their own network and RPC port, each configured for a different asset. You would need some balance of RVN in each one to cover transaction fees, then. [14:21] id be curious to know what all the advantages are of this [14:21] one more question, how would i decentralize the gateway between bitcoin mainnet/ravencoin mainnet? in the current RSK implementation they use a federated gateway, how would we avoid this? [14:21] it sounds neato [14:21] Just the daemon. The alternative is to get exchanges to adapt to our RPC calls for assets. It is easier if it just looks like Bitcoin, Litecoin or RVN to them, but it is really transferring FREE_HUGS [14:22] That makes sense. Should further increased exchange adoption for each asset. [14:22] hmm yeah its just easier for wallet integration because its basically the same as rvn and bitcoin but for a specific asset [14:22] so this is in specific mind of exchange listings for assets i guess [14:23] if i understand rightly [14:23] @traysi Gut feel is to allow ravend to handle a few different assets on different threads. [14:23] Are you going to call it kawmeleon mode? [14:23] Lol [14:23] I read that as kaw-melon mode. [14:24] same lol [14:24] so in one single swoop it possible to create a specific wallet and server daemon for specific assets. great. this makes it easier for exchanges, and has some added advantages with processing data too right? [14:24] Still keeping a RVN balance in the wallet, as well, Tron. How will that work is sendtoaddress sends the token instead of the RVN? A receive-RVN/send tokens-only wallet? [14:25] @traysi Yes [14:25] sendtoaddress on the other port (non RVN port) would send the asset. [14:25] This will be a hugely useful feature. [14:25] ^ [14:26] @Tron currently rpc function not support getaddresses senttowallet and this has to be done in ravencore lib, will this change you propose improve this situation [14:26] Config might look like {"port":2222, "asset":"FREE_HUGS", "rpcuser":"hugger", "rpcpass":"gi3afja33"} [14:26] how will this work cross-chain? [14:28] @push We'd have to go through the rpc calls and work out which ones are supported in compatibility mode. Obviously the mining ones don't apply. And some are generic like getinfo. [14:28] ok cool 👍 cheers [14:29] for now we continue using ravencore lib for our plans to keep track i just wondering if better way [14:29] as we had some issue after realising no rpc function for getting addresses of people who had sent rvn [14:29] @push | ravenland.org all of the node explorer and ravencore-lib functionality is based on RPC (including the addressindex-related calls). Nothing you can't do with RPC, although I'm not sure of the use cases you're referring to.. [14:29] interesting, so ravencore lib is using getrawtransaction somehow [14:29] i thought this may be the case [14:29] that is very useful thankyou for sharing this [14:30] look into addressindex flag and related RPC calls for functions that operate on addresses outside your wallet [14:30] thank you that is very useful, tbh i am not very skilled programmer so just decoding the hex at the raven-cli commandline was a challenge, i shall look more into this, valued information thanks as this was a big ? for us [14:31] Ok, things have gone quiet. New topic. [14:31] IPFS (integration) [14:31] GO [14:33] ... [14:33] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> So, we have been adding ipfs integration into the wallet for messaging. This will allow the wallets to do some pretty sweet stuff. For instance, you will be able to create your ipfs data file for issuing an asset. Push it to ipfs from the wallet, and add the hash right into the issuance data. This is going to allow for a much more seamless flow into the app. [14:34] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> This ofcourse, will also allow for users to create messages, and post them on ipfs and be able to easily and quickly format and send messages out on the network with ipfs data. [14:34] It will also allow optional meta-data with each transaction that goes in IPFS. [14:34] will i be able to view ipfs images natively in the wallet? [14:34] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> Images no [14:34] We discussed the option to disable all IPFS integration also. [14:35] @russ (kb: russkidooski) Probably not. There's some risk to being an image viewer for ANY data. [14:35] No option in wallet to opt into image viewing? [14:35] cool so drag and drop ipfs , if someone wanted to attach an object like an image or a file they could drag drop into ui and it create hash and attach string to transaction command parameters automatically [14:35] We could probably provide a link -- with a warning. [14:35] nomore going to globalupload.io [14:35] :ThinkBlack: [14:35] I understand that the wallet will rely on globalupload.io. (phase 1). Is it not dangerous to rely on an external network? Or am I missing something? [14:36] hmm [14:36] interesting, i suppose you could hash at two different endpoints and compare them [14:36] if you were that worried [14:36] and only submit one to the chain [14:36] You will be able to configure a URL that will be used as an IPFS browser. [14:36] Oh ic [14:36] you wont flood ipfs because only one hash per unique file [14:36] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> There are multiple options for ipfs integration. We are building it so you can run your own ipfs node locally. [14:36] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> or, point it to whatever service you would like. e.g. cloudflare [14:36] this is very cool developments, great to see this [14:37] Just like the external block explorer link currently in preferences. [14:37] @[Dev] Blondfrogs what about a native ipfs swarm for ravencoin only? [14:37] We have discussed that as an option. [14:37] @push | ravenland.org Considering having a fallback of upload through globalupload.io and download through cloudflare. [14:37] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> @russ (kb: russkidooski) We talked about that, but no decisions have been made yet. [14:37] yeah, i would just use two endpoints and strcompare the hash [14:37] as long as they agree good [14:37] submit tran [14:38] else 'potentially mysterious activity' [14:38] ? [14:38] if you submitted the file to ipfs api endpoints [14:38] Will the metadata just be a form with text only fields? [14:39] and then you would get 2 hashes, from 2 independent services [14:39] that way you would not be relying on a central hash service [14:39] and have some means of checking if a returned hash value was intercepted or transformed [14:39] i was answering jeroz' question [14:40] about relying on a single api endpoint for upload ipfs object [14:40] We have also kicked around the idea of hosting our own JSON only IPFS upload/browse service. [14:41] I have a service like this that is simple using php [14:41] we only use it for images right now [14:41] but fairly easy to do [14:41] Yup [14:42] Further questions about IPFS? [14:43] contract handling? file attach handling? or just text fields to generate json? [14:44] trying to get an idea of what the wallet will offer for attaching data [14:44] Probably just text fields that meet the meta-data spec. [14:44] ok noted [14:44] What do you mean by contract handling @sull [14:45] We won't prevent other hashes from being added. [14:45] asset contract (pdf etc) hash etc [14:45] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> also, being able to load from a file [14:45] got it, thanks [14:47] Let's do some general Q&A [14:48] Maybe just a heads up or something to look for in the future but as of right now, it takes roughly 12 hours to sync up the Qt-wallet from scratch. Did a clean installation on my linux PC last night. [14:48] Any plans or discussions related to lack of privacy of asset transfers and the ability to front run when sending to an exchange? [14:48] ^ [14:48] Is there a way to apply to help moderate for example the Telegram / Discord, i spend alot of time on both places, sometimes i pm mods if needed. [14:49] Any developed plans for Asset TX fee adjustment? [14:49] also this^ [14:49] @mxL86 We just created a card on the public board to look into that. [14:49] General remark: https://raven.wiki/wiki/Development#Phase_7_-_Compatible_Mode = updated reflecting Tron's explanation. [14:49] @mxL86 That's a great question. We need to do some profiling and speed it up. I do know that the fix we added from Bitcoin (that saved our bacon) slowed things down. [14:50] Adding to @mxL86 the sync times substantially increased coinciding with the asset layer activation. Please run some internal benchmarks and see where the daemon is wasting all its cycles on each block. We should be able to handle dozens per second but it takes a couple seconds per block. [14:50] @BW__ no plans currently for zk proofs or anything if that's what you're asking [14:50] You are doing a great job. Is there a plan that all this things (IPFS) could be some day implemented in mobile wallet? Or just in QT? [14:50] i notice also that asset transactions had some effect on sync time as we were making a few. Some spikes i not analysed the io and cpu activity properly but will if there is interest [14:51] we are testing some stuff so run into things i am happy to share [14:51] @BW__ Might look at Grin and Beam to see if we can integrate Mimble Wimble -- down the road. [14:51] yeees [14:51] @J. | ravenland.org work with the telegram mods. Not something the developers handle. [14:51] i love you [14:51] @J. | ravenland.org That would be best brought up with the operators/mods of teh telegram channel. [14:51] @corby @Tron thnx [14:51] @S1LVA | GetRavencoin.org we're planning on bumping fees to... something higher! [14:51] no catastrophic failures, just some transaction too smals, and mempool issues so far, still learning [14:52] @corby i thought that this may happen :ThinkBlack: [14:52] @corby x10? 100x? 1000x? Ballpark? [14:52] Definitely ballpark. [14:52] 😃 [14:52] 😂 [14:52] Is a ballpark like a googolplex? [14:53] @push | ravenland.org asset transactions are definitely more expensive to sync [14:53] yes yes they are [14:53] they are also more expensive to make i believe [14:53] 10,000x! [14:53] as some sync process seems to occur before they are done [14:53] @traysi ★★★★★ thanks for the suggestions we are going to be looking at optimizations [14:53] But, it is way slower than we like. Going to look into it. [14:53] i do not understand fully its operation [14:53] 1000x at minimum in my opinion [14:53] its too easy to spam the network [14:54] yes there has been some reports of ahem spam lately [14:54] :blobhide: [14:54] 😉 [14:54] cough cough ravenland [14:54] @russ (kb: russkidooski) we're in agreement -- it's too low [14:54] default fee 0.001 [14:54] ^ something around here [14:54] @corby yep we all are i think [14:55] waaay too low [14:55] meaningful transactions start with meaningful capital expense [14:55] though there is another scenario , there are some larger volume, more objective rich use cases of the chain that would suffer considerably from that [14:55] just worth mentioning, as i have beeen thinking about this a lot [14:55] there are some way around, like i could add 1000 ipfs hashes to a single unique entity, i tested this and it does work [14:56] @russ (kb: russkidooski) What would you suggest. [14:57] I had a PR for fee increase and push back. [14:57] Ignore the push back. 0.001 RVN is not even a micro-farthing in fiat terms [14:57] definitely around 1000x [14:57] Vocal minority for sure [14:57] ^ yep [14:57] @russ (kb: russkidooski) That sounds reasonable. [14:57] Couple hundred Fentons [14:58] right now an asset transaction is 0.01 of a penny essentially [14:58] 1 RVN would work now, but not when RVN is over $1. [14:58] yes exactly [14:58] Hi. Late to the party. [14:58] We are also talking about a min fee. The system will auto-adapt if blocks fill up. [14:58] im thinking tron, some heavy transaction use cases would fall out of utility use if that happened [14:58] so whats the thinking there [14:59] is there a way around the problem, bulked ipfs hash transactions? [14:59] 1000x would put us around btc levels [14:59] maybe a minimum 500x? [14:59] @russ (kb: russkidooski) Agreed. [14:59] <[Dev] Blondfrogs> It is time to wrap it up here. Everyone. Thank you all for your questions and thoughts. We will be back in 2 weeks. 😃 [14:59] Small increase and review. [14:59] Thanks all! [14:59] Cheers. [15:00] yeah sorry for 1 million questions guys hope i didnt take up too much time [15:00] cheers all 👍 [15:00] Thanks everyone [15:00] Thanks everyone for participating!!! [15:00] That is what we are here for [15:00] 100x-500x increase, 1000x maximum [15:00] 🍺

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